joe biden is disputing that. >> the academic literature does show that when tax rates go down, we have more growth. president obama's first chairwoman of the council, christina roma had a lengthy -- higher taxes reduced gdp. lower taxes result in more gdp growth. when you have more gdp growth, you have more tax revenue. that reduces the deficit. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, actually, the reports by folks like larry bartels, demonstrate that when we have higher tax rates effective tax rates that we actually have both higher gdps as well as higher household incomes relative to inflation. they don't make a causal plane. they don't say raising taxes causes economic growth. nor i think even if one could demonstrate that there was a correlation between, for example, lower tax rates and gdp, one also can't make a claim unless you can demonstrate that there's a rate of change difference that causes the growth. you can't make those causal argument. >> economists do make those argument. it works like this. if the government takes less of your money, you're going to work harder. if you're